Commentary on Plato's Republic, Book I

Socrates, Meet Thrasymachus
After silencing Polemarchus, Socrates is confronted by the Sophist Thrasymachus. The sketch of Thrasymachus in the book is rather detailed and important, and begins as follows:

While we were speaking Thrasymachus often started to interrupt, but he was restrained by those who were sitting by him, for they wanted to hear the argument to the end. But when we paused after these last words of mine he could no longer keep quiet. He gathered himself together like a wild beast about to spring, and he came at us as if to tear us to pieces.
Polemarchus and I were afraid and flustered as he roared into the middle of our company: What nonsense have you two been talking, Socrates? Why do you play the fool in thus giving way to each other? If you really want to know what justice is, don't only ask questions and then score off anyone who answers, and refute him. You know very well that it is much easier to ask questions than to answer them. Give an answer yourself and tell us what you say justice is. And don't tell me that it is the needful, or the advantageous, or the beneficial, or the gainful, or the useful, but tell me clearly and precisely what you mean, for I will not accept it if you utter such rubbish. (Polemarchus, 336b-d).

Socrates claims to be startled and responds "trembling": "[D]o not be hard on us, Thrasymachus, if we have erred in our investigation . . . be sure that we err unwillingly." (336e). After a long back and forth about the unreasonableness of Thrasymachus' demand (Socrates claims that it's unacceptable for Thrasymachus to rule out answers, potentially correct ones at that, in advance) and the unreasonableness of Socrates always playing the role of questioner never answerer (Thrasymachus says that he told the others that Socrates would not answer the "What is justice?" question and would pretend ignorance), Thrasymachus suggests he can give "a different and better" answer to the question than any provided so far and wonders whether Socrates will be willing to "pay a penalty". After one more Thrasymachus dig at Socratic method, Socrates says:

My dear man, I said, how could one answer, when in the first place he does not know and does not profess to know, and then, if he has an opinion, an eminent man forbids him to say what he believes? It is much more seemly for you to answer, since you say you know and have something to say. Please do so. Do me that favour, and do not begrudge your teaching to Glaucon and the others. (Socrates, 337e ff.).

Eventually, Thrasymachus offers his account of justice, initially claiming, "the just is nothing else than the advantage of the stronger."  Under Socratic questioning about the meaning of the statement, Thrasymachus says that every city has a government/rulers and that it is the government or ruling element in each city that rules and has power. In particular, Thrasymachus claims that each government/ruler "makes laws to its own advantage", "declare [the laws] to be just for their subjects" and "punish [anyone] who transgresses the laws as lawless and unjust."  Thus, for Thrasymachus, "justice is, the same in all cities, the advantage of the established government, . . . the advantage of the stronger." (338e,ff.).

At this point in the game, Thrasymachus has offered us not only a descriptive account of justice but one that purports to give an operational definition of the term, "justice". One thing I mean by this is that the account is not, even implicitly, a normative account, on any level. That is, both of the previous accounts of justice can be said to be normative, prescriptive, on two levels. Not only could we preface Cephalus' and Polemarchus' accounts of justice with "One ought" (so, one ought to tell the truth and pay back debts, or one ought to help friends and harm enemies; more on this shortly), it is also plausible to see both men as offering an account of justice that ought to obtain or be followed, irrespective of whether it actually is so. That is, both Cephalus and Polemarchus can be seen to be recommending justice, can both be taken to be saying, not only that one ought to be just but also that this is what justice ought to be. None of this, it seems, can be said of Thrasymachus' account of justice. Thrasymachus' notion of justice is descriptive in that it does not consist of a recommendation of behavior at all but rather offers us several fundamental facts ABOUT justice, viz., it is an invention of governments/rulers and it is to the advantage of the government/rulers.  This is why Thrasymachus' account of justice cannot be plausibly prefaced with, "One ought", even if Thrasymachus is offering facts about justice that he believes ought to obtain.

It is important to appreciate these differences in the accounts of justice offered by Cephalus and Polemarchus and that offered by Thrasymachus. In particular, Thrasymachus' answer to Socrates' "What is justice?" question reveals an ambiguity in the question. Whereas one could understand the question as asking for an account of what one must do in order to be just, or an account of the common feature(s)of all just actions, the question can be taken such that it is to be answered by citing fundamental facts about justice. For example, "What is religion?" is similarly ambiguous. It can be plausibly answered by saying that it's the belief in and worship of a, superior being.  Or by saying that it's an invention by humans that is a result of their fears and which attempts to calm them.  Both answers are legitimate enough perhaps but if one wants to know what activities distinguish the religious from the nonreligious, only the former answer gives us that straightaway. Since it seems clear that Socrates does wish to find out what actions one must perform to be just, Thrasymachus' account forces us to tease out the answer to the question, "What must one do in order to be just, what actions constitute just actions?" The answer, of course, is not hard to find. Thrasymachus would contend that being just is a matter of following the rules, obeying the laws of the government/ruler (and thus, doing what is advantageous to the government/ruler).

But this presents an obvious problem, viz., it is clear that Thrasymachus' account of justice is such that being just is not something to be recommended in all cases, is not something that one ought always to do or aspire to do, not something, in short, that is an excellence (arete) or virtue. On the contrary, any right thinking person probably would find it unacceptable to be told that one ought always and everywhere to do what is advantageous for one's government/rulers, and that doing so was an excellence or virtue. Indeed, something stronger seems in place, viz., one ought not always do what is advantageous to one's government/rulers (unless, of course, one is convinced that there is a symbiotic relationship between the advantage of one's government/rulers and one's own advantage. However, not only have I no idea how such a relationship could be created [unless one is part of the government, rendering one's own interest identical with the interest of the government, which is a bit of a cheat, it seems], I would also question the worth of creating any such relationship.  It is healthy, I think, for a government and the governed to have some competing interests.  Unfortunately, I have neither time nor inclination to set out my reasons for this here. The upshot seems to be then that Thrasymachus' account of justice has the odd feature of being something we would neither recommend nor commend others for doing.

 

This is especially problematic given the discussion up to this point. For in both of the earlier discussions about justice, Socrates found the inability to recommend or commend a particular course of action a sufficient reason for rejecting the accounts of justice under discussion. For example, in the case of Cephalus, Socrates found the fact that it was not always right to tell the truth to a crazed man, or not always right to return weapons to crazy people, a sufficient basis for rejecting Cephalus' account of justice. And it was because Socrates couldn't commend the "useless" activity of guarding things, and couldn't recommend or commend stealing, or harming the good, or making people unjust, that he claimed that Polemarchus' account of justice wouldn't do. In short, the entire discussion up to this point has depended heavily on the assumption that justice is a good thing, something one ought to try to achieve, an excellence or virtue. So much is obvious from the fact that anytime an account of justice offers us a course of behavior that turns out to be something that cannot be recommended or commended, it is taken as sufficient grounds for rejecting that account as a correct account of justice. However, Thrasymachus has offered us an account of justice that not only is not offered as an account of right or recommended or commendable behavior but one which actually veers in the opposite direction, viz., it makes just behavior out to be behavior that is not to be recommended, is not commendable, is not right. Clearly, Thrasymachus' account of justice is at odds with the common assumption that justice is necessarily a good thing, something that can be and ought to be recommended and commended.

There seem to be two possible maneuvers here. One is to simply point out to Thrasymachus that since his account of justice offers us just behavior as behavior that cannot be recommended or commended, the account is off the mark. That is, the fact that Thrasymachus is not willing to recommend or commend the behavior said to be just by his account of justice shows that he has failed to offer a viable answer to Socrates' question. The other maneuver is to claim that Thrasymachus and Socrates are talking by each other because they possess different conceptions of justice. In particular, for Socrates, justice is something that necessarily is an excellence, a virtue, something that can and ought to be recommended to others. It is also something whose existence and properties are independent of human opinion and convention in the same way we would say the existence and properties of the sun are so.  Most importantly, perhaps, Socrates clearly believes that justice is always and everywhere one and the same. (More on this below. Obviously there is a can of worms opened here. In particular, some believe that it is wrong to say that the sun being yellow is a property of the sun that is independent of human opinion and convention, for not only is it one of our conventions to use 'yellow' as we do, but it is also the nature of our perceptual capacities (or incapacities, depending on one's outlook!) that gives rise to color perceptions and concepts.

In short, it is because we are as we are that we hold that there are colors and shapes and things in our world. Change our human capacities and you change the furniture of the world, or so it is alleged. We make the world what it is, we are worldmakers, etc., etc. Such arguments are, to be kind, sophistic, in the worst sense of this pejorative term. In particular, they do violence to our use of 'sun', 'yellow', 'color' and most importantly, 'independent of', and 'human convention'. Properly understood, it is the case that the sun's existence, color, heat-producing capacities, etc., are not due to us, or our conventions. For they are independent of them in at least this sense, viz., if all humans died tomorrow, it would (or could) still be true that the sun exists, is yellow, produces such-and-such amount of heat, etc.
 

Exactly why Socrates possesses this conception of justice, or whether Socrates has any good reason to understand justice in this way, or whether there are any good reasons for this notion of justice, I will not pause to consider. The fact is that he has such a conception. It is also important to note that these properties trump all others in the sense that if we are offered a candidate for justice, if it is seen not to possess these properties then it is not really justice (cannot be justice or Justice). (An aside on the history of Western Philosophy: Is it really to be marveled at that no one is able to satisfy Socrates' request for definitions given that his standards for measuring the legitimacy and accuracy of a definition are ideal and abstract whereas the proffered definitions are cashed out in terms of everyday, sublunary objects. In short, satisfying Socrates that one knows what X is is as impossible as finding an everyday, sublunary object that has the properties requisite for Platonic forms!).

In contrast, Thrasymachus believes justice is very much a human creation and invention. Furthermore, and in distinction to Socrates' own account, it will turn out for Thrasymachus that the actual dictates of justice can be quite different, city to city. For Socrates, if one finds different cities with different rules of justice, this is evidence that some or most of these cities have faulty ideas about justice is and what it demands. For Thrasymachus, this is obviously not the case. Justice is, for Thrasymachus, relative to the city in which one finds oneself. If City A regards gambling as just then it is so, in City A; if city B regards gambling as unjust, then it is so, in City B. And if one is tempted to ask, But is gambling just or not, Thrasymachus would regard the question as a bad one, in need of being relativized to some city or other. (As I said earlier, Thrasymachus is a Sophist and thus would be a fan of the Sophist's most notorious truth, viz., the dictum of Protagoras that man is the measure of all things; of the things that are that they are and of the things that are not that they are not).

Another important feature of Thrasymachus' account is that it presupposes egoism is the name of the game. For Thrasymachus regards it as obvious that anyone who is in charge of a city's government would make laws in his/her own interest, as far as that is possible. And anyone in such a position who wouldn't do so is a fool, according to the Sophist handbook on life. Finally, it is also the case that what is central to Thrasymachus' conception of justice, that is, what Thrasymachus takes to be the identifying marks of justice, is that justice has something to do with the laws of one's community. For Thrasymachus, it's obvious that justice is to be found in, indeed, is defined by, the laws of cities. As such, Thrasymachus would regard it as a ludicrous suggestion to be told that justice is to be found anywhere other than in the laws of a city or community. At best, one might get Thrasymachus to agree that some particular city's laws ought not be regarded as a particularly fine example of justice but one could never get Thrasymachus to accept that justice involves anything other than the explicitly stated laws of a city or community.


It is important to appreciate that Thrasymachus implicitly appeals to everyday ideas about justice, and so offers a very different approach to the problem of justice from that offered by Socrates. The key difference in their respective approaches, of course, can be put most simply by saying that whereas Thrasymachus is a realist, Socrates is an idealist. That is, for Thrasymachus, you look for justice in the laws in a city. That is where it is to be found. Whatever you find there must be what passes for justice in that city. Thrasymachus also offers us a fact which he claims is true of the laws in each city, viz., they are made by the rulers for their own advantage. Socrates however believes that long before cities ever got around to setting out laws for their citizens to follow, indeed, long before there was anything worthy of the name 'city', there was justice in the mind of humans. It is this idea that constitutes justice and it is this idea that Socrates wants to try to understand and articulate. Obviously, the many and varied attempts by humans to create laws that somehow correspond to, or embody, the idea of justice may not always hit the mark. As such, Socrates is not going to assume that the laws of cities is where one must find justice. On the contrary, it is clear that the idea of justice is what ideally should be guiding the construction of a city's laws. Thus, the notion of justice sought by Socrates is prior to and independent of any particular city's laws.

The point I am making here can be made clearer, perhaps, by an analogy! Suppose someone asked you: What is art? You could say (as many do) that art is whatever is hanging, or on display, in art museums or galleries (or, more exhaustively, what could be so hanging or displayed). This answer is perfectly acceptable and certainly not wrong. But it is a realist answer, in several senses. First, it is an answer that assumes that the proper boundaries of art are sufficiently clear so as to render the gathering of art into art museums and galleries a relatively easy task. It is also realist in that it is practical. That is, one need only go to museums or galleries to see what art is. Of course, one will see many different sorts of objects in the museums and galleries, so many in fact that one may be impressed and bewildered by the variety of the objects displayed therein. At this point, things can go in one of two directions. One may be untroubled by the variety and declare that art is a notion which covers a great variety of objects, not unlike the notion of food or living thing.

Like the latter notions, art is constantly evolving so that it is anybody's guess what will count as art tomorrow. On the other hand, one may suppose that underneath the variety there lies a common thread (or threads), a common feature (or features), an IDEA, which serves not only to unify the various objects we call art but also serves to permit us to distinguish tomorrow's art from tomorrow's nonart (as well as distinguish yesterday's real art from the nonart, despite the fact that it was all displayed in an art museum or gallery). In short, one may suppose that the notion of art as what is or could be displayed in art museums or galleries fails to appreciate that the gallery and museum directors decide what is or is not to be put in their galleries and museums. This fact makes it clear that the directors harbor ideas about what is or is not art that is different from, and prior to, the definition of art as whatever is displayed in galleries and museums. These ideas, the idealists claim, are part of our human endowment and anyone who wishes to know what art is must be able to articulate and understand these ideas, as well as be able to critique them, if necessary.

Socrates' First Argument against Thrasymachus
Though it seems clear that Thrasymachus and Socrates are doomed to talk by each other because of their different conceptions of justice, and relatedly, their different assumptions about the identifying marks of justice, a lively discussion does take place between them. Socrates' first move against Thrasymachus resurrects a complaint he made against Polemarchus and suffers from the same difficulties I noted in previous remarks, i.e., Socrates brings up the possibility of mistakes. In this case, the possibility of mistakes by the rulers about what laws are or are not in their interest. If such mistakes are made, says Socrates, it turns out that it will be just for subjects to "do not only what is to the advantage of the stronger [rulers], but also the opposite, what is not to their advantage." (339d). Now as I noted in the case of Polemarchus, the fact that one's account of justice can be misapplied or mistakenly applied (by human beings no less, in the real world!) is hardly to be considered a telling complaint against that account.

If Socrates is looking for an account of justice which is error-proof, it should be clear that such an account necessarily will say nothing about this world or its inhabitants. (As my understanding of the Buddha's first noble truth has it, ain't nothin' perfect in this world. Of course, this point is also well-appreciated, to put it mildly, by Plato. It is also obvious that the problem of mistakes can be raised against Socrates' own preferred account of justice, as many have pointed out). For this reason alone there is nothing to like about Socrates' first complaint against Thrasymachus. If Socrates was playing fairly, he would have ignored the appeal to mistakes as being irrelevant. (A clever move which Thrasymachus could have made here is to point out to Socrates that subjects, no less than rulers, are liable to mistakes about what laws to obey and so might fail to obey the laws which the rulers mistakenly thought were to their advantage, thereby leading to a no harm/no foul situation).

But there are other difficulties here as well. Socrates gets Thrasymachus to agree that a subject's obedience to the rulers is also just. But this is surely problematic, by anyone's lights. No one believes that justice requires subjects to obey the laws of the rulers, regardless of whether those laws are to the advantage of the rulers. The possibility of unjust laws (even from a divine lawgiver; surely all sane people allow that God's command to Abraham to kill his son Isaac, was an unjust command) is something everyone recognizes. Of course, the fact that Thrasymachus has rulers making laws to their own advantage renders the idea that justice requires subjects to obey the laws of the rulers even more ludicrous. Even Thrasymachus allows that someone who faithfully obeys the laws of the rulers in such cases is at best a "high-minded fool" and at worst, a sap. Obviously then there is something very wrong with Thrasymachus' account of justice and it has nothing to do with the possibility of mistakes by the rulers.

Be this as it may, Thrasymachus thinks he must respond to Socrates' "possibility of mistakes" complaint but before he gets a chance to respond, Polemarchus and Cleitophon argue about whether the possibility of mistakes complaint causes Thrasymachus any trouble. Cleitophon says that Thrasymachus claimed that it is just [for subjects] to obey the orders of the rulers. As such, regardless of whether the subjects are obeying laws that are in the rulers' interest or not, Cleitophon says that the subject's obedience is sufficient to satisfy Thrasymachus' notion of justice. Polemarchus responds by noting that Thrasymachus also said that justice is the advantage of the stronger. And clearly this is incompatible with subjects obeying laws that are not in the rulers' interest. To this Cleitophon says that what Thrasymachus meant was that the advantage of the stronger is "what the stronger believes to be of advantage to him. This the weaker must do . . . ." (340b). While this certainly resolves the conflict by dissolving the problem about mistakes (while it makes sense to imagine the rulers making mistakes about their own interest, it seems a stretch to imagine them, or anyone, making mistakes about what they believe to be in their interest; the very notion seems absurd), Thrasymachus refuses Cleitophon's helpful suggestion.

Instead, Thrasymachus makes the seemingly absurd and patently false claim that a ruler, "in so far as he is a ruler, unerringly decrees what is best for himself and this the subject must do." (341). Stranger still is the fact that Thrasymachus accuses Socrates of being captious for supposing that Thrasymachus "would call stronger a man who is in error at the time he errs." (340c; it's hard to conceive someone not being in error at the time he errs.). For it is surely Thrasymachus who is being captious in arguing that "precise speech" demands that we not call a man a physician at the time he errs in the treatment of patients, nor call a man an accountant at the time he makes a miscalculation. For errors with respect to one's craft reveal that one's special skills have, for at least the time of the error, abandoned one. If we are to speak with precision then, we must not say physicians make medical mistakes, nor accounts accounting mistakes, nor rulers make ruling mistakes. For "[i]t is when the knowledge of his craft leaves him that he errs, and at that time he is not a practitioner of [his craft]." (Thrasymachus, 340d).

Socrates accepts this rather sophistic maneuver around the "possibility of mistakes" complaint but it would be wrong to suppose that Socrates has thereby granted the irrelevance of mistakes by the rulers in assessing Thrasymachus' account of justice. For Socrates' "mistake complaint" has forced Thrasymachus (or so he believes) to speak of "rulers in the precise sense", i.e., rulers considered simply as rulers, or rulers qua rulers, as it is often stated. And Socrates will use the notion of a ruler qua ruler to his advantage against Thrasymachus.

In an effort to better understand Thrasymachus' notion of the ruler "in the precise sense", Socrates asks whether a physician in the strict sense is a money-maker or someone who treats the sick (getting the answer, someone who treats the sick) and whether a ship's captain in the strict sense is a ruler of sailors or a sailor (getting the answer, a ruler of sailors). From these admissions, Socrates tries to show that craftspeople in the precise sense never seek their own advantage but rather always seek and secure the advantage of the things their respective crafts "rule and have power over", whether it be a patient's body (in the case of medicine), horses (in the case of horse-breeder), sailors (in the case of the ship's captain), etc. The upshot of Socrates' argument, of course, is that rulers in the precise sense never seek their own advantage but rather seek the advantage of their subjects.

At this point, Thrasymachus asks Socrates whether he has a nanny and why she lets him "go around with a snotty nose and does not wipe it . . ." (343a). Thrasymachus says that Socrates' ideas about rulers in the precise sense always seeking the advantage of their subjects is hopelessly naive and that if Socrates had ever been out of his front yard he would appreciate that rulers are like shepherds and cowherds (rather than doctors or ship's captains). Both rulers and shepherds think of their own good first, looking after their subjects only with an eye to what can be got from them. Thrasymachus also claims that subjects, by obeying the stronger (the unjust), "do what is of advantage to the [ruler], the stronger, and, by obeying him, they make him happy, but themselves not in the least." (343d). Thrasymachus insists that the just (the rule followers) are always at a disadvantage against the unjust (the one who either makes the rules or refuses to follow them when it is not to his advantage), including partnerships, paying taxes, holding public office. The upshot for Thrasymachus is clear: Injustice (or injustice on a grand enough scale) is a "stronger, freer and more powerful thing than justice", yielding the greatest happiness to the wrongdoer and leaving the victim of the wrongdoing "most wretched".

Clearly, Socrates and Thrasymachus are still on two different pages. In this case, Socrates is still on the ideal page while Thrasymachus seems to have turned to a page that is both cynical and unrealistic. I like to say that the two are arguing from the extremes, or the fringe, where no one really lives or could live. For Socrates, ruling is all giving and no getting and even if this is true of the ruler in the precise sense, it reveals the irrelevance of this notion. For no human being is, or could be, simply and solely a "ruler in the precise sense". For Thrasymachus, ruling is (or ought to be ) all getting and no giving, which gives us an account that is just as irrelevant to the real world as the notion of a ruler in the precise sense. The truth about ruling is that it is going to involve both giving and getting. I do think, however, that rulers who put the advantage of their subjects foremost in their minds are better rulers. Whether they are happier, freer and stronger than rulers who put their own interests first, I am not sure.

Socrates is not ready, however, to concede defeat and contends that even in the case of the shepherd, he is concerned to provide what is best for the sheep. Socrates adds that whatever benefit the shepherd gets comes to him not qua shepherd but qua money-maker/pay-earner (a craft that only Socrates could invent!). Generalizing the point, Socrates says this holds for every craft or rule, viz., it doesn't provide for its own advantage but rather what is of advantage to the subject (the weaker), and that is why craftspeople and rulers ask for pay, because their crafts and rule affords no benefits to its practitioners. Socrates also adds that good men will not be willing to rule for either money or honor; only the fear of being ruled by inferiors leads the good man to rule at all.

Although Socrates is satisfied that he has established that the nature of the "true ruler", the ruler in the precise sense, is not to seek his own advantage but rather that of his subjects, I think all is less than well for Socrates here. First, is it possible, even in theory, to distinguish the advantage of the ruler from the advantage of his subjects? If one regards it as advantageous to be a ruler then, ceteris paribus, a ruler who seeks the advantage of his subjects is much more likely to continue ruling than one who does not do this. But then it seems that seeking the advantage of his subjects is itself advantageous to the ruler. The two are the sides of the same coin. Another problem concerns the possibility of determining what is or is not advantageous to one's subjects. In particular, should the ruler envision his subjects' advantage individually or as a group?

Most importantly, however, there is the question of who is to determine what is or is not advantageous to one's subjects. Is the ruler to be given complete, or ultimate authority about this? If so, one can well imagine cases where the subjects disagree with the ruler's claim that such and such a law is to their advantage. For illustrative purposes, consider the case of the shepherd again. It's quite possible for the shepherd to see himself as doing what is to the advantage of his sheep. However, the sheep may see things quite differently. At the very least, to say that a ruler who ignores his subjects' ideas about what is to their advantage is nonetheless doing what is to the advantage of his subjects seems at best problematic and at a worst, unacceptable. It would have been wise for Socrates to have told us who determines what is advantageous for subjects in the course of arguing that no ruler seeks his own advantage but only that of his subjects. In particular, if Socrates believes that rulers are to be given complete or ultimate control over determining the advantage of their subjects, what sounds good in theory could turn out to be anything but good.

 

Socrates' Second Argument against Thrasymachus-- The argument from pleonexia

At 348 or thereabout, Socrates takes up the matter of whether Thrasymachus is right to say that the life of the unjust man is to be preferred to that of the just man. Under Socratic questioning, Thrasymachus claims that injustice is a virtue (excellence, arete) but stops short of calling justice a vice, preferring to say instead that it is "high-minded foolishness". Socrates responds by asking whether this means that being unjust is low-minded. Thrasymachus says he regards being unjust as "good judgment", wise and virtuous, especially so for those "who are able to carry injustice through to the end, who can bring cities and communities of men under their power." (348d). Thrasymachus makes a point of saying that he is not talking about the injustice of purse-snatchers or temple-robbers, and other "small timers"; rather, he is talking about injustice on a grand scale. However, one suspects that Thrasymachus would still claim that purse-snatchers and temple-robbers get the better of just people, so long as they don't get caught.

Socrates ask Thrasymachus whether the just man wants to get the better of, or "overreach", "outdo" (pleonexia) the just, or the unjust. Thrasymachus says the just man wants to outdo the unjust only (even though he cannot). Thrasymachus also claims that the unjust man "deems it right to get the better of everybody", just and unjust alike. Socrates contends that this shows the unjust man is like the ignorant and that it is the just man that is like the knowledgeable or wise. For only the ignorant man will try to outdo everyone; the wise only try to outdo those who are not wise. Socrates makes the case for this by appeal to craftsmen like musicians and doctors, claiming that the musician, who is wise in musical matters, does not try to outdo another musician but only the unmusical. Similarly, the physician doesn't try to do better than another doctor but only the non-doctor. Assuming that the wise are good, Socrates claims that the wise and good do not try to do better than other wise and good people but only those who are unwise or bad. It seems then that the just person is like the wise and good and the unjust person is like the ignorant and bad. Socrates concludes that justice is virtue and wisdom and injustice vice and ignorance.

The argument from pleonexia has had many critics, rightfully so by my lights. It has many flaws. Having Thrasymachus blush in the face of the argument strikes me as unrealistic editorializing by Plato, for it is an argument that cuts no ice against his position. First, pleonexia is something of a term of derision for the Greeks. It applies in cases where one is thought to be seeking more than one ought to seek, trying to get more than one ought. For example, if 3 friends and I are going to share a pie I would be guilty of pleonexia if I insisted on getting more than a quarter of it. It is odd, I think, to apply the term to the case of experts and non-experts. While it is not wrong to say that no expert tries to outdo or overreach another expert, it is more than odd to say that all experts try to outdo or overreach non-experts. It is more accurate to say that experts try to achieve that which non-experts cannot, be it hitting the right note, finding a cure, or whatever.

Most importantly, it is clear once again that Socrates and Thrasymachus are using terms differently.

When Thrasymachus says that the unjust person will try to outdo everyone, what he means is that the unjust person will try to acquire more of the goodies of life than anyone else, especially things like money and power and all the things this brings, including clothes, food, drink, sex, travel, etc. In short, Thrasymachus claims that the unjust person will try to outdo everyone else in the game of acquiring material goods. As such, Thrasymachus need not be troubled by Socrates' argument that no expert tries to outdo other experts. For that argument has nothing to do with outdoing others in the game of acquiring material goods. Socrates' argument simply reminds us that whenever and wherever there are clear-cut goals and ends, like hitting the right note or finding a cure, or getting the answer to a math problem, etc., only the fool would try to outdo others who are capable of reaching the goal. And this is because there is no such thing as outdoing in such cases. At best there is only "tying for first place". Thrasymachus could readily allow that wherever the notion of outdoing others is impossible or otherwise makes no sense, there the unjust person will not try to outdo others. It's clear that trying to get more material goods than everyone else at least makes sense in a way that trying to outdo someone who has already done the best that can be done does not.

This raises the question, of course, of whether it is possible for the unjust person's desire for material goods to reach insane levels, i.e., to lead him to madness in the unsatisfiable quest for more and more material goods and pleasures. Of course it is possible. (Compare Book IX, where Plato sketches the life of just such a person). But contra Socrates and Plato, I don't see that the quest for material goods and pleasures is necessarily any more dangerous in this regard than is the quest for other things, say, the quest to be the best doctor, or musician or golfer in the world. The bottom line here is that Thrasymachus and Socrates are once again talking by each other.

Finally, it is also true that there is a very obvious sense in which experts do try to outdo other experts. There are, after all, musical competitions and rankings of doctors and other experts. All experts are not equal nor are they content to rest with the status quo. Most wish to be better than "the average expert". The point here is that Socrates' claim that no expert tries to outdo another expert but only nonexperts is true only in a very limited and esoteric sense. And in this limited sense, it does nothing to show that the just person is like the wise and virtuous and the unjust man like the ignorant and vicious.

 

Socrates' Third Argument against Thrasymachus-- The "honor among thieves" argument

Socrates begins this argument by claiming that having established (at least to Socrates' satisfaction) that justice is wisdom and virtue, "it will easily be shown to be also stronger than injustice which is ignorance; nobody could still not know that." (351a). However, Socrates still feels the need to show that justice is stronger than injustice. (Perhaps this reveals that Socrates is aware that not everyone will be convinced by his previous argument!). His argument plausibly contends that even unjust people, say a band of thieves, will achieve more by not being unjust to each other but rather by being just. This is because, says Socrates, "injustice . . . causes factions and hatreds and fights with one another, while justice brings a sense of common purpose and friendship." (351d).

While this is certainly a point well taken, we should also note that justice does not guarantee success nor injustice failure in any endeavor. More importantly, there are subtleties here that need sorting out. While it is true that most people are likely to hate and quarrel with those they believe to be unjust (especially so if the injustice hits close to home), they may be powerless to thwart the plans of, or even punish the unjust parties. Some may even be so powerless as to have no other option but to aid and abet those who have done them injustices. Life is also crazy enough that those to whom one has never done an injustice (or never been thought to have done an injustice) may nonetheless hate you and quarrel with you and thus thwart one's plans, just though they may be.
 

Be this as it may, another difficulty with Socrates' argument here is that it leans on a case of black-and-white thinking. In particular, Socrates seems to me to assume that so long as one is not being actively unjust toward another (i.e., is not stealing, not clobbering someone, not holding someone against his/her will, etc.) then one counts as being just. For while it is true that a band of thieves that could not keep from stealing from one another, or beating each other up, etc., would achieve nothing, it seems strained to describe the relationship that exists among a successful band of thieves as a case of justice. For example, if I enlist your help in robbing a bank, all along planning to kill you when the job is done, I have not been just toward you. And you may have similar ideas and so are not being just toward me. However, since neither of us shared our ultimate plans with the other, we can work together and achieve the unjust end of robbing the bank.  Our achievement ought not be said to have been made possible by justice prevailing among us.

At best it relied on our not being actively unjust during the time of planning and executing our operation. If one wishes to say that we were both actively unjust during the operation because of our plans to kill the other, that's fine, for it shows that achieving ends is possible even in the face of active injustice, contrary to Socrates' claim. I would add however that plans and reality are two different things and I may very well decide, upon completing our job, not to kill you. So was I actively unjust toward you or not? Whatever the answer, I still say that it's strained to describe me as being just toward you. It is a mistake to regard people as at every moment and in every action being either just or unjust and not both. It's a case of black-and-white thinking.

Indeed, I think it is much more accurate to describe people as not being unjust toward each other than it is to describe them as being just toward each other. Although it is obviously unjust for me to lie to someone, to steal from someone, to attack someone, etc., it sounds strange to say that I am being just in not lying to people I never talk to or in telling the truth about the weather or the previous night's ball game, or not stealing from my neighbor or not attacking people I pass walking in the supermarket. In all these cases I think my behavior is best described as being not unjust rather than being just. And the vast majority of people, the vast majority of the time, can be rightly said to be not unjust but ought not be said to be just. Telling the truth when not lying could benefit me or prevent a harm to me can be said to be just; returning money found on the street to its rightful owner can be said to be just, confronting an attacker can be said to be just, etc. As such, it is much more accurate to say that a band of thieves must not be unjust toward each other if they are to achieve their unjust ends than it is to describe them, as Socrates does, as relying on justice.

Another difficulty here is that there is nothing to prevent Thrasymachus from biting the bullet and agreeing with Socrates that any successful operation, whether its end be just or unjust, requires the presence of justice among its participants. For admitting this in no way threatens the claim that injustice is stronger than justice. All Thrasymachus needs to claim here is that those who use justice to achieve unjust ends will do better, will get more material goods, than those who do not. Socrates' argument that justice is necessary to achieving any goal does nothing to threaten this claim.

Another element of Socrates' argument here is his trying to extend it from the case of a group of people to that of an individual. At 351e, Socrates asks: Does injustice, my good sir, lose this capacity for dissension when it occurs within one individual, or will it preserve it intact." Socrates goes on to claim that injustice in an individual "makes that individual incapable of achievement because he is at odds with himself and not of one mind." (352a). Socrates concludes that 'those who are completely evil and completely unjust are . . . completely incapable of achievement." (352c). Obviously, Socrates has been hoist on his own petard here for if he is correct, it follows that we have nothing to fear from those who are completely unjust, since they can achieve nothing.

I only wish that such were the case. I also fail to understand, first, how injustice can be said to occur within an individual. I understand how an individual can be unjust (e.g., s/he could rob a bank, assault someone, etc.) but this cannot be the same thing since it is obvious that such injustice can be repeated again and often is, so obviously this sort of injustice in an individual does not render the unjust "incapable of achieving" more unjust ends. Second, I fail to understand why or how injustice in an individual puts him at odds with himself. I am sure there are unjust people aplenty who have no internal conflicts concerning their unjust behavior.

 

Socrates' Fourth Argument against Thrasymachus-- The "function of the soul" argument

Socrates' final salvo against Thrasymachus attempts to show that unjust people do not live better, are not happier, than just people. This argument leans heavily on Socrates argument that justice rather than injustice is a virtue (the conclusion of the argument from pleonexia). To begin with, Socrates appeals to the notion of the function of something. For the Greeks, the function of something was that thing's unique abilities (what it alone can perform) or else what could be done best by using the thing (what it can perform better than anything else could). So the function of the eyes is to see, of the ears to hear and of a knife to cut, etc. (One might be able to use a knife as a paperweight but its function is still cutting since it cuts things better than a paperweight that isn't a knife cuts things). Relatedly, the virtue or excellence (arete) of a thing is that which enabled a thing to best perform its function. For a knife, its excellence is a sharp blade, or sharpness, since that allows it to properly perform its function, viz., cutting things.

Socrates claims that the function of the human soul is thinking, reasoning, deliberating, and most generally, living. (The soul is the breath of life for the Greeks). A soul deprived of its excellence will not think well, reason well, etc., and will not live well. A soul that possesses its excellence will live well and thus be blessed and happy. Since justice is a virtue of the soul, it is clear that just people will live well and be happy and unjust people will live badly and be wretched, or so Socrates claims.

Of course, one difficulty with this argument is its dependence on the pleonexia argument. Since the latter argument isn't successful the function of the soul argument cannot be successful either. It simply has not been properly established that justice is a virtue, let alone a virtue of the soul. Nothing has been said in any of the arguments so far to show that justice is an excellence of the soul or that injustice ruins the soul. Of course, Socrates has not given any arguments designed to establish that there even is a soul, let alone what its function is and that it needs justice to perform this function well. Although it is clear that Socrates' last argument of Book I anticipates key elements of the main argument about justice in the rest of the Republic, he has not done nearly enough here to provide a convincing case for the conclusion that just people live happily and unjust people unhappily.

One of my stock complaints against Socrates' arguments about justice in the Republic is that they are too ambitious. That is, Socrates typically attempts to show too much in his arguments. Here he attempts to show that just people live happy lives while unjust people do not. But surely this is overkill, not to mention very difficult indeed. It is not difficult to imagine that there could be happy tyrants or wrongdoers; indeed, I am sure there have been a number of them over the years, with more to come in the future.

It is even less difficult to imagine just or good people who are not particularly happy, perhaps even unhappy. It also doesn't take much to conceive of just people who are happy but whose happiness depends very little on their being just. All of this suggests that being just is neither necessary nor sufficient for happiness. Socrates however is convinced that justice is at least necessary, and perhaps sufficient, for happiness. Needless to say, the task of showing this by argument is a formidable one. Should we be surprised when he fails to pull it off?


The final paragraph of Book I is a kind of object lesson on why philosophers are such fans of Plato and his writings. For in this paragraph, Socrates pretty much confesses that all of his arguments in Book I are rendered suspect by the fact that he failed to answer the question of what justice is. Because of this, he cannot really be sure that the just are wise, that justice is more profitable than injustice, nor that the just man is happy and the unjust man unhappy. Although I have already confessed that I do not accept Socrates' belief that knowing anything at all about a particular concept X presupposes knowing the answer to the Socratic "What is X?" question, it is nice to see Socrates respecting his principles. Although Thrasymachus has been silenced, Plato has Socrates confess that little of import has been established at this point.

 


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Last modified September 7, 2011
JAH, Professor
Dept. of Philosophy